sixwordstories | (no subject)

May I pimp my meme (http://kittydesade.livejournal.com/529284.html) here, too? (Comment may be deleted at your discretion.)

(Seriously, when the election news was announced, I was pretty happy, but most of the updates in my LJ have to do with Prop 8, not the presidential election. And I dont' even live in California. *wry*)

Of course you may.

I'm not in California, either. I'm all the way on the other side of the country.

It just... For a little while, we had three states. Three. That allowed gay marriage. And now we're back down to two, and just... ugh.

I do have a friend of mine who speaks legalese and is in a position to get the updates and translate them for me, though, on the legal side of things of this, who says that not one but two lawsuits with two different approaches are in the works to repeal that amendment, so. Crossing fingers.

It's like one step forward, ten steps back, and I really think it's time for a new dance.

Yeah, I heard about the lawsuits. I'm hoping so hard they make it through.

So do I, and so am I. This isn't the world we're asking for, here, it's the same damn chances that everyone else gets.

Exactly.

And what really bothers me is the biggest reason we can't have them? Religion. Which, hello, separation of church and state.

Exactly.

I don't mind people voting because of religion; people should vote how they think would be best. What I do mind is a basic right being decided by a vote. Or something that at least is held up as a basic right. If marriage is a fundamental human right (and from what I heard this is one of the arguments in the lawsuit) then it should be a fundamental right of every US citizen.

If it isn't a fundamental human right, then it shouldn't be protected as one. There should be no right to marriage, no spousal privilege, and all related benefits should be similarly secularized. You can't have it both ways.

It's not just a fundamental human right, it's not even a religious contract. It's a legal contract. Two people of completely different religious affiliations can get married if they want to. Oh, sure, in a lot of cases they can't get married in their churches unless one of them converts, but legally, they can go to the courthouse, get their marriage license, and get married.

It's a ridiculous argument, and it's moot.

I'm not quite sure what you're saying... then again, I"m not quite sure what I said. I'm a bit distracted atm.

But you're right, it is a legal contract, as far as what's permitted by law and what isn't. Using the terms 'human right' and 'fundamental right' was because I think that's how it's phrased in the constitution of California. I could be wrong on that point too.

(Either way, I still think legal marriage should be available to everyone or no one. No bonus points for saying, here, you two can, no, you two can't.)

Heh, basically that religion has...pretty much NOTHING to do with marriage. And that's the argument, "But God said marriage is between a man and a woman!" I'm sorry, when did God start typing up the marriage licenses? Did I miss the little pieces of paper floating down from heaven? I just don't get it. I don't get why people don't see this. It makes my brain hurt. Separation of church and state, what is that?

Oh. yes, that I can get behind. And now... I think I'm just going to stop typing in public, because I'm really distracted by life and it's just doing funny things to my brain. :)

But, yes. All hail separation of Church and State.

i think a lot of (dumb) people operate under the (mistaken) belief that it's the churches who issue marriage licenses or have the ultimate authority over them--i know that one of the arguments used to pass prop 8 was "BUT WHAT ABOUT OUR RELIGIOUS FREEDOMS, THEY'LL PUT PRIESTS IN JAIL AND FINE THEM IF THEY DON'T MARRY GAY COUPLES" which is lmfao completely wrong.

Oh my GOD, seriously?! *more headdesking* Just, no. Stop the world, I want off.

yeah the three major arguments in the most common (as in, i saw it about once every commercial break on nearly every channel) prop 8 ad was
- gay marriage infringes on our religious freedom!
- domestic partners already get the same legal rights, and this was forced on us by activist judges!
- gay marriage usurps your parental autonomy, they'll teach your kids about gay marriage in schools and you can't opt out of it!

so... basically blatant lies.

Two words:

Fucking retards.

hahaha well actually it was pretty smart of them to reframe it into an argument about TEH CHILDREN OMGZ, because... it worked, clearly.

the no on 8 people thought they had the vote all wrapped up, and then there was like, a blitzkrieg of BUT THE CHILDREN O_O yes on 8 shit, and they waited too long to start running counterads--and when they finally did, said ads failed to address the (untrue) points the yes on 8 ads were making. a ton of people were completely misled on what they were ACTUALLY voting on.

That's the Walmart Moms. The ones who don't pay attention to elections or politics til the end then vote on the ads they see that day.

Right there with you.

I'm beginning to think that my friend and I's idea to fly to the moon with the mushroom men in drag is actually a really good idea.

It's one of those all or nothing deals. All equal, or no one, and obviously, everyone would prefer all equal given that choice.

Which, hello, separation of church and state.

BUT WE'RE A CHRISTIAN NATION ZOMG!!! WASHINGTON WAS A CHRISTIAN!!! CHRISTIANS WERE HERE FIRST WE HAVE DIBS ON STUFF!!!

*repeated headdesking until brain falls out*

That argument always makes me want to drill my ear drums out.

We were actually a country built on RELIGIOUS FREEDOM and ESCAPING PERSECUTION.